Tuesday Open Thread | Joyce White Vance: Mueller report is ‘sufficient to obtain a guilty verdict’ on Donald Trump

Former U.S. attorney Joyce White Vance told Congress on Monday that former special counsel Robert Mueller’s report on the Russia investigation should be enough to “obtain a guilty verdict” on President Donald Trump.

Vance testified before the House Judiciary Committee along with several other legal experts, including Watergate figure John Dean, on the lessons from Mueller’s highly-contested report. In her remarks, Vance said that Trump would have been charged with a crime if he was not president of the United States.

“Based on my years of experience as a prosecutor, if I was assessing that evidence as to a person other than a sitting president… the facts in that report would be sufficient to prove all of the elements necessary to charge multiple counts of obstruction of justice,” Vance said. She added that the evidence is “not equivocal” and that the decision to charge Trump would not even be a “close-call.”

“I would be willing to personally indict the case and to try the case. I would have confidence that the evidence is sufficient to gain a guilty verdict and win on appeal,” Vance said.

Vance previously served as the U.S. attorney for the Northern District of Alabama from 2009 to 2017. She was the first female U.S. attorney nominated by former President Barack Obama. She now teaches law at the University of Alabama and is an MSNBC commentator.

In her testimony, Vance explained it is likely that the only reason Mueller did not charge Trump was because of a longstanding Justice Department policy not to indict sitting presidents.

“Now people can debate the merits of that position,” Vance said. “But as long as that memo is in effect it binds DOJ lawyers and Robert Mueller in his consideration committed to following the law.”

In his 448-page report, Mueller investigated 10 episodes where Trump potentially obstructed justice before and throughout the two-year probe. Those events included his firing of former FBI Director James Comey, multiple attempts to have former Attorney General Jeff Sessions take over the investigation and Trump’s efforts to remove the special counsel through then-White House Counsel Don McGahn and others.

While Mueller did not make a final determination on whether Trump obstructed justice, Attorney General William Barr subsequently cleared the president of any wrongdoing shortly after the Justice Department received the report. The move stumped legal experts and raised questions about the attorney general’s credibility.

In his first public statement since the report’s release, Mueller told reporters last month that he would have exonerated Trump if he had determined the president was innocent. During that press conference, Mueller also announced his resignation from the Department of Justice.

“As I set forth in the report after that investigation, if we had had confidence that the President clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so,” Mueller said in his televised remarks. Many believe he implied that it is now up to Congress to formally accuse the president of wrongdoing.

About SouthernGirl2

A Native Texan who adores baby kittens, loves horses, rodeos, pomegranates, & collect Eagles. Enjoys politics, games shows, & dancing to all types of music. Loves discussing and learning about different cultures. A Phi Theta Kappa lifetime member with a passion for Social & Civil Justice.
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98 Responses to Tuesday Open Thread | Joyce White Vance: Mueller report is ‘sufficient to obtain a guilty verdict’ on Donald Trump

    • eliihass says:

      Hopefully, when there’s a Democratic President, the media does not get to have the nerve to make any demands, and especially not formal daily briefings scheduled and routinely professionally conducted from the actual dedicated briefing room .. certainly not after zero pushback and shamelessly groveling and crawling around the WH grounds waiting to lap up and eagerly disseminate the endless lies, distractions, gaslighting of a treasonous buffoon – and entirely on his terms …and even doing the same for his slew of idiotic enablers and gofers ..

  1. rikyrah says:

    This is the guy who was put on trial for leaving water in the desert for the undocumented.


  2. rikyrah says:

    New 2020 head-to-heads in national Quinnipiac poll just out:

    Biden 53%, Trump 40%
    Sanders 51%, Trump 42%
    Harris 49%, Trump 41%
    Warren 49%, Trump 42%
    Buttigieg 47%, Trump 42%
    Booker 47%, Trump 42%

    — Ryan Struyk (@ryanstruyk) June 11, 2019

  3. I went back and found my post to Dorothy Rissman (@stiNgo100) because of her kindness and thoughtfulness to me when I was in despair after losing everything we had in a house fire in 2011. @ametia and @rikyrah were so kind hearted to me too. 😭😭😭

    SouthernGirl2 says:
    September 6, 2011 at 2:57 pm (Edit)
    Dorothy Rissman,

    You’re so sweet & so kind! I couldn’t help from crying. Thank you from the bottom of my heart! I am so grateful for your outpouring of love & thoughtfulness during this awful time in my life. I am amazed that God would allow me to cross paths with such loving people that I have never met in person. Words can’t express my gratefulness towards everyone who has shown so much love for me. Bless you, Dorothy! And once again, thank you from the bottom of my heart! ***hugs***

  4. rikyrah says:

    DC Metro Snitch Who Lost Her Book Deal Is Suing Publisher for $13 Million

    Genetta M. Adams
    Saturday 11:48am

    Natasha Tynes, the author who lost her book deal after calling out a black female D.C. Metro employee for eating on the train by posting her photo on Twitter, is suing her publisher for $13 million, Buzzfeed News reports.

    In the lawsuit, Tynes alleges that the California-based publisher Rare Bird Books breached its contract and defamed her with false public statements, which led to “extreme emotional distress.” The suit claims that she was hospitalized after suffering chest pains and anxiety attacks and that she and her family had to flee the United States temporarily because of death threats.

  5. rikyrah says:

    As a Black Man, I Understand Why Democrats Don’t Want to Impeach Trump

    Michael Harriot
    Today 9:00am

    Contrary to what most people think, almost every black person I know honestly believes in the noble ideals of America.

    We think it is self-evident that all men are created equal. The history of Africans in America is nothing if not the desperate, fruitless pursuit of life, liberty and happiness. We want to live in the land of the free and the home of the brave, too. But something keeps preventing that from happening.

    That “something” is white people.

    Not all white people.

    While the apathetic, the nonplussed, the indifferent and fence-riding Caucasians might not necessarily hate black people, when push comes to shove, they will often choose to ignore racism for the sake of their own advancement. They already have the privilege of living in a nation that offers them liberty and justice for all. Even though they may believe in these ideals, they are unlikely to risk their place atop the mountaintop to help anyone else reach the summit.


    The reluctance of Democratic Party leaders to impeach Donald Trump is indicative of this incontrovertible truth. Nancy Pelosi and the mostly white party leadership is resisting the growing chorus of black voters calling for impeachment. And let’s be clear, it is a black chorus. A recent CNN national poll (pdf) shows that 59 percent of non-whites favor impeaching Trump while only 31 percent of whites do.

    Part of the reason for this is that—despite most Americans disapproving of the job he is doing as president—most white people are not substantively affected by Trump. Even if they disagree with his policies, their children aren’t being put in cages. They don’t have to deal with a Muslim travel ban. They aren’t being profiled as “black identity extremists.” No one asks for their citizenship papers. They are immune to the rise in hate crimes and right-wing violence.

  6. Last night I found out that Dorothy Rissman (@stiNgo100) passed away last year. I was wondering what happened to her. Back in 2011 she helped when my house burned down. She was a kind soul. I’m so sorry to hear of her passing. May she play the violin with the Angels. RIP Dorothy!

  7. rikyrah says:

    EXCLUSIVE: First Family affair! Barack Obama, Michelle and Malia cheer on Sasha as she graduates from Sidwell, DC’s most elite private high school – and Uncle Joe Biden turns up too

    Barack, Michelle and Malia Obama cheered on Sasha as she graduated from high school on Sunday
    The former First Family was photographed by fellow graduates’ family members at Sidwell Friends School’s ceremony in Washington D.C.
    Sasha, who turned 18 on Monday, was seen in her Class of 2019 photo wearing a white dress
    She will reportedly attend the University of Michigan in the fall
    Joe Biden and his wife Jill were in attendance for the big day, also celebrating their granddaughter Maisy’s graduation from the prestigious school
    Sidwell has been welcoming presidents’ kids for years, including Malia Obama, Chelsea Clinton and some children of former presidents Eisenhower and Nixon
    Some parents of this year’s seniors have been accused of pushing the school’s staff to the limit to try to get their children into Ivy League colleges

    PUBLISHED: 11:11 EDT, 11 June 2019 | UPDATED: 13:04 EDT, 11 June 2019

    • eliihass says:

      Daily Mail, sadly, is a rag that’s done much damage – and continues to.. shouldn’t in my opinion get clicks ..even when they cover a positive about our beloved historic first family..

  8. rikyrah says:

    Jon Favreau (@jonfavs) Tweeted:
    While McConnell refuses to work on an infrastructure bill for the country, his own state gets special access to new projects because Trump appointed his wife to run the Department of Transportation.

    A corrupt party that only takes care of themselves.

    https://t.co/Oy1q37429z https://twitter.com/jonfavs/status/1138086048616144899?s=17

  9. Ametia says:

    Word of the Day : June 11, 2019

    Chasten: verb CHAY-sunDefinition
    1 : to correct by punishment or suffering : discipline; also : purify

    2 a : to prune (something, such as a work or style of art) of excess, pretense, or falsity : refine

    b : to cause to be more humble or restrained : subdue

  10. rikyrah says:

    Chao streamlined federal grants for husband McConnell: Politico
    Rachel Maddow shares details of a report published by Politico that Donald Trump Transportation Secretary Elaine Chao hired a former campaign aide to her husband, Mitch McConnell, to help streamline federal grants to Kentucky that would help McConnell in his bid for reelection.

  11. Liza says:

    Well said…
    Jillian ✨Drummond

    Privilege will have you believing the Power to decide someone’s innocence, their rights, ends with you.

    Privilege provides you with a system that upholds your power, even when evidence (& a confession) proves you were wrong, and acted salaciously in the process. Sit down, Linda
    6:42 AM – 11 Jun 2019 from Manhattan, NY

  12. Liza says:

    They’ll probably cut off his head.

  13. Liza says:

    Chuck Schumer’s never been my guy…

  14. rikyrah says:

    Biden at a fundraiser tonight, on his desire to work with the Republican Party post Trump.

    “With Trump gone you’re going to begin to see things change. Because these folks know better. They know this isn’t what they’re supposed to be doing.”

    — Sam Stein (@samstein) June 11, 2019

    positively absurd!!

    Merrick Garland, muthaphucka.



    and decided, in the midst of the biggest economic downturn since the Great Depression…
    that they would commit ECONOMIC TREASON against this country and not support ANYTHING 44 wanted to do.

    Trump is NOT an anomaly.

  15. rikyrah says:



    McConnell stands in the way of bipartisan election-security safeguards
    06/11/19 09:20 AM
    By Steve Benen
    The House Democratic majority has had quite a bit of success in recent months advancing many of its top legislative priorities, though the leadership clearly has plenty of additional work to do. Up next is legislation intended to “safeguard our democracy from future attacks.”

    At first blush, this may seem like an area where bipartisan progress is at least possible. After all, there’s nothing inherently partisan or ideological about protecting our system of elections against foreign intrusion – especially in the wake of the Mueller report, which documented Russia’s attack in great detail.

    The New York Times reported this week, however, that Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) has effectively become a “one-man roadblock” on the issue.

    The bills include a Democratic measure that would send more than $1 billion to state and local governments to tighten election security, but would also demand a national strategy to protect American democratic institutions against cyberattacks and require that states spend federal funds only on federally certified “election infrastructure vendors.” A bipartisan measure in both chambers would require internet companies like Facebook to disclose the purchasers of political ads.

    Another bipartisan Senate proposal would codify cyberinformation-sharing initiatives between federal intelligence services and state election officials, speed up the granting of security clearances to state officials and provide federal incentives for states to adopt paper ballots.

  16. rikyrah says:

    Fox News Stars Begin Pushing Rumors About Joe Biden’s Health
    Baseless claims about Biden’s medical fitness have quietly taken hold on Fox. At a time when TV news stars make similar claims about Trump and Clinton, this may be the new normal.
    Justin Baragona
    Updated 06.10.19 6:15PM ET / Published 06.10.19 5:12AM ET

    One month after Joe Biden announced his run for president, several Fox News stars have already begun quietly pushing rumors that the 76-year-old ex-veep is in poor health.

    Since the end of May, Fox Business Network and Fox News star Lisa “Kennedy” Montgomery and Fox News prime-time host Sean Hannity have speculated on-air, on at least four separate occasions, that the current Democratic presidential frontrunner is secretly dealing with health issues, often comparing his condition to illness-related conspiracy theories the network pushed about Hillary Clinton during the 2016 election

    The Biden rumor-mongering seemingly began May 29, during the broadcast of Fox News’ afternoon gabfest The Five. While assessing Biden’s candidacy, Kennedy claimed to know Democratic operatives engaged in a whisper campaign about Biden’s health.

    “He is much more like Hillary Clinton, because if you talk to Democrats, who are working for different campaigns, all of the aggressive gossip whisperers—and this is where the action is happening in terms of opposition research—it’s people having a few drinks at a bar and whispering, ‘You know there is something wrong with the former vice president,’” she claimed. “But that’s what they are actively doing right now. And it is surprising because they are concerned with taking Biden down and getting their candidate out there.”

    • eliihass says:


      Some Dems are very much in on this too.. believing that if they can push Biden out, they/their preferred person will somehow then rise up in the polls, and be ‘embraced’.. by an imaginary ‘enthusiastic’ crowd of Dem voters.. who’ll then line right up behind them..

      Not gonna happen..

      And Dems are as usual, playing right into the right-wing play book.. and clearing the way for the treasonous buffoon aided and abetted by all manner of ‘investors’..

    • eliihass says:

      Emboldened by now determined to be non-existent ‘checks and balances’ …and a complicit media completely invested in continuing this incredibly damaging to our democracy and union, but personally and professionally lucrative to them and their oligarch owners, nightmarish Orwellian status quo.. The book deals are flowing.. and every media dunce has one..

    • eliihass says:

      The truth is, this Dem slate isn’t really cutting it.. And thanks to a complicit media that’s actively helped talk-up, protect and buoy a treasonous buffoon.. sometimes under the guise of ‘for the sake of our country, protecting the office – no matter who’s in it’ ..à la Mueller and co. …complete with dutifully and enthusiastically addressing him unfailingly and reverentially with the p honorific (never a Mr. to be found or heard these days!) …even while discussing his brazen criminality..

      Boosting and consciously glossing over the glaring misdeeds of this worthless treasonous fool and his kkklan any way they can, has more than helped normalize and legitimize him/them in the minds of an exhausted and worn-down Joe-public – including ki-ki-ing at his brazen emoluments stomping and self dealing and law breaking and ignorance and embrace of despots and alienation of America’s allies, while making it all about himself.. and the media still selling him variously as a ‘genius’, ‘strongman’, ‘macho’, ‘fighter’, ‘tough’, ‘independently wealthy’ …and all manner of ‘positive’ characteristics that have always impressed foolish Americans..

      And when faced with the prospect of a remotely formidable Dem like Biden under these especially weird times ..one who can also easily cut into the buffoon’s support from the narrow-minded, ‘economically-anxious’, ‘working class’ racists, the media gets to work quickly and gleefully helping to chip away and rubbish said Dem.. making room not for another Dem, but in reality, for the treasonous buffoon..

    • majiir says:

      If cops are held liable for their unnecessary and harmful actions and know they’ll have to pay compensation to the victims or their families, it may just make them think twice before they use their position of power to abuse and kill others for no reason other than that they can do it and not suffer any consequences. The mthrfkrs have a very powerful union that steps in to defend them at the first sign of trouble. Another problem for me is that there are millions upon millions of Americans who seem to think cops can do no wrong.

  17. rikyrah says:

    Good Morning, Everyone 😄 😄😄

    • rikyrah says:


    • rikyrah says:


      She led the prosecution of FIVE INNOCENT CHILDREN.
      She led the prosecution of FIVE INNOCENT CHILDREN.

      And, bytch can’t purse her lips to apologize?

    • Ametia says:

      I URGE Everyone to watch the NETFLIX SERIES, and discover the TRUTH for yourself.

      It’s extremely difficult to watch the cruelty & evil inflicted on these five men, but we must not allow these white devils to prevail in their LIES!!!!!!

      Don’t give credence to the fuckery write-ups about this bitches’ whining.

    • Liza says:

      Horrible, wretched woman.

  18. Good morning. everyone!

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