Knox & Associates Forensic Consultant gets schooled by LLMPapa, a justice warrior for Trayvon Martin

LLMPapa’s Response to Knox & Associates
Using a simple ruler…

Frederick Letterman Law Blog

Professor Letterman:LLMPapa produces a new video regarding the alignment of the bullet hole in Trayvon Martin’s chest and the aligned holes in the two sweatshirts that he was wearing.

LLMPapa’s Bullet Hole Misalignment Analysis Is Full of Holes

Pipitone’s news feature details some of the conclusions I made in my recent book, Intermediate Range: The Forensic Evidence in the Killing of Trayvon Martin. Among the findings detailed in the report are discrepencies in George Zimmerman’s time line of the events, a finding that Trayvon Martin had ample opportunity to arrive at Brandy Green’s townhome before Zimmerman’s call to police ended, and a finding that sag in Martin’s hoodie and underlying sweatshirt provide physical evidence that supports the conclusion that, at the time Zimmerman fired the fatal shot, Martin was hovering over him.

While most objective observers have praised these findings, I have received sharp criticism from both camps: those who support Zimmerman’s bid for freedom and those who believe he should be imprisoned for murder.

Among those who argue in favor of Zimmerman’s conviction is an amateur videographer who, cloaked in anonymity, refers to himself on YouTube only as “LLMPapa”.

While many have praised LLMPapa for his analysis, as of yet, LLMPapa’s findings have gone largely unchallenged. In the world of anonymous Internet video posting, such challenges are typically pooh-poohed by the recipient and his supporters in rambling, profanity-laced diatribes typed from the comfort and protection of one’s living room. In court, however–the venue I am accustomed to working in–one must actually withstand often rigorous cross-examination and scrutiny of one’s work. Welcome to the world of forensic science, LLMPapa.

LLMPapa’s bullet hole misalignment theory is, well, full of holes. To understand where he went wrong, let’s start with the measurements–the ones he references in his video (“Cardboard and Bullshit, Part Two”).

The autopsy report indicates that the bullet entrance wound to Trayvon Martin’s chest was 17.5 inches below the top of the head:

LLMPapa owned Knox Forensic Consulting using a simple ruler. Wham! Bam! KaPow!

About SouthernGirl2

A Native Texan who adores baby kittens, loves horses, rodeos, pomegranates, & collect Eagles. Enjoys politics, games shows, & dancing to all types of music. Loves discussing and learning about different cultures. A Phi Theta Kappa lifetime member with a passion for Social & Civil Justice.
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54 Responses to Knox & Associates Forensic Consultant gets schooled by LLMPapa, a justice warrior for Trayvon Martin

  1. Cardboard and Bullshit, Part Four – A Different Conclusion

  2. Mark O’Mara has now moved to take ABC to court about the recording of DeeDee’s statement. They’re afraid of this young girl b/c she drives a stake into the heart of Zimmerman’s lies.

    George Zimmerman to take ABC News to court

  3. Xena says:

    Just seeing if the standard word press block quote works on this theme.


  4. NBC’s Zimmerman response: Other media outlets highlighted race

    NBC doesn’t want to deal with George Zimmerman’s libel suit. In a Feb. 20 filing in the case, NBC Universal Media LLC asks a Florida circuit court to stay the case until the conclusion of Zimmerman’s June trial for second-degree murder of Trayvon Martin.

    The procedural part of the motion — that the libel case and the criminal case overlap and can’t proceed smoothly at the same time — is far less interesting than the substantive case that lawyers for NBC News advance in defense of the network.

  5. Listen up, you ass clowns from the Conservative Tree House. You’re not coming in here to bash LLMPapa! Michael Knox need to take his ass whipping like a man. So take your trash back to the Tree House and play with yourselves over there.

    In the meantime..

  6. Memorial Tribute. Protesting The Killing of Trayvon Martin

  7. Benjamin “Justice 4 Trayvon” Crump!/pages/Benjamin-Justice-4-Trayvon-Crump/327501447335425

    I wanted to point out a fact today is to look for the truth, authenticate information, before jumping to a conclusion

    The defense has been raping the media with their nonsense and I will show you why what they say, does not mean much anyways

    1) The case is about the defendant stalking and chasing a kid with a gun, calling him a “fucking punk/coon” while chasing the kid, and getting angry that the kid was running away from him (the defendant said “shit, he’s running”, not my words, his exact words). The defendant’s own words is that this started by the clubhouse, and the defendant ended up over 600 feet from where he started toward the kid he was chasing, where he eventually confronted, attacked, and killed the victim. Bottom line, his nonsense double back nonsense is a bunch of lines and is easily proven to be lies. You do not chase or stalk anyone that amount of distance, while yelling curse words at the victim, and have no intent on getting the victim. In fact, when he caught the victim, he was seen by w18 confronting the victim.

    2) The defense claimed that they were not getting discovery. Then when court arrived, it turned out to be a pack of lies. They got discovery and there were catalogs of what was given to them, and some of the material was re-given to them numerous times. The defense claimed that they were not getting cell phone information. When court arrived, it turned out to be a lie, and the defense was even invited to go to the cell phone forensics lab with them to watch in person the work done. The defense denied the request and invitation and instead wrote a motion which were a pack of lies. The defense claimed to only want to work the case in the court of law yet for 90% of the case, their faces have been in the media, simply spouting what they felt. The defense then claimed that the case was not about money, and all they have been doing is begging for money.

    Let’s be honest, is the defense, honest at all?

    Their allegations are their allegations. They can say anything but does it necessarily mean it is true? Was the defense there? Are they objective?

    Do not get fooled by the shiny object, because the main factor is they are trying to divert attention

    • Ametia says:

      Seriously, any witnesses the defense tries to smear is USELESS. The witnesses did NOT MURDER Trayvon; GEORGE ZIMMERMAN DID.

  8. Witness 8′s (Dee Dee) alleged lies do not matter

    I write today to remind everyone that DD is not a critical prosecution witness because they can win this case without her testimony and her alleged lies about her age and whether she went to a hospital, instead of the funeral, probably are not admissible.

    She is not a critical prosecution witness because the physical evidence, forensics, location of Trayvon’s body and the spent shell casing, and the defendant’s conflicting and inconsistent statements bury him beneath a mountain of evidence.

    Although we will not know until trial, I am anticipating that the defendant’s interlocking phone calls with others before and after he killed Trayvon will eliminate any lingering doubt that anyone might have about his guilt. Even if it does not, I do not believe the prosecution’s case will be in any jeopardy.

    BDLR will likely wait to call DD until late in his case after he has put in all of the evidence that he believes he needs to introduce in order to convict the defendant. With everything else in place, her testimony will merely confirm what everyone on the jury already knows. The jury likely will believe her because her testimony will be self-authenticating. That is, even though she had never been to the RTL, everything that she says Trayvon told her will be confirmed by the interlocking phone records of the calls she had with Trayvon, the physical layout of the place and the weather.

    Click on the link above for more…

  9. Judge in George Zimmerman case signs subpoena for Trayvon’s Twitter, Facebook info.,0,822138.story

    The judge in the George Zimmerman murder case on Monday signed orders, directing Twitter and Facebook to release to defense attorneys all of Trayvon Martin’s posted comments, photos, videos and messages plus his list of Facebook friends.

    Circuit Judge Debra S. Nelson did the same for the state’s most important witness, the young Miami woman who was on the phone with Trayvon moments before Zimmerman shot him.

    The subpoenas are no surprise. The judge agreed months ago to sign them after defense attorneys argued they were entitled to the information.

    They’re important because they could wind up producing key information about both Trayvon, a 17-year-old high school junior from Miami Gardens, and the young woman, his girlfriend.

    Trayvon had no history of arrests, according to Sanford police, but he was disciplined by Miami-Dade school officials, who one time found women’s jewelry in his backpack along with a burglary tool, according to the Miami Herald.

    There also have been hints about Trayvon’s marijuana use, and what he posted on Twitter and Facebook could reveal more about that.

    When he was killed, he was in the midst of a 10-day school suspension because officials had found an empty marijuana baggie in his backpack. In addition, autopsy tests revealed his blood contained a small amount of marijuana.

    The subpoena for his social media records asks that Twitter and Facebook produce information about him dating back to Jan. 1, 2011.

    That’s the same date in the subpoena for his girlfriend’s social media posts and information.

    • Ametia says:

      Let’s hope Trayvon’s Twiter and Facebook accounts are INTACT and haven’t been tampered with.

      • Early on in the case, I remember reading either his FB or Twitter had been hacked.

      • Xena says:

        Back in October 2012 when O’Mara first presented to the court that he wanted the social media for Trayvon and DeeDee, he also disclosed that Facebook had refused to provide information. Facebook operates internationally and pursuant to federal law. They have polices to only comply with subpoenas of law enforcement. Facebook told O’Mara then, in certain terms, to go fly a kite and they would see him in federal court.

        Facebook lawyers have already notified attorneys in the case in writing that they believe federal law does not allow the company to disclose user-account information.

        “Let them have [the subpoena],” the judge said. “Let them argue with Twitter.”

        What we have here is much along the lines of the FBI’s objection to the subpoena issued by the court; i.e., that a State court lacks jurisdiction to issue subpoenas for information that is under federal jurisdiction.

        Judge Nelson’s issuing of the subpoena to Facebook and Twitter is a void order.

      • Judge Nelson’s issuing of the subpoena to Facebook and Twitter is a void order.

  10. Breaking

    Zimmerman defense fund: We’ve taken in $54k since Jan. 1,0,3038316.story

    George Zimmerman’s defense team today reported that its recent fund-raising surge has generated nearly $54,000 in donations since January 1, allowing it to hire three experts for his upcoming trial.

    The defense team also reported that Zimmerman and his wife have spent nearly $12,000 on living and household expenses in that time.

    The new numbers were published on a website, created by Zimmerman, his lawyers and defense team.

    They relaunched the fund-raising effort and website Jan. 30, acknowledging that they had spent their way through more than $300,000 and were nearly broke.

    In addition, Zimmerman and his wife, Shellie, had previously spent $60,000 in donations before defense attorney Mark O’Mara got involved in the fund in April.

  11. SybrinaFulton and the mother of FL slain teen, Jordan Davis

    Sybrina Fulton and the mother of FL slain teen, Jordan Davis

  12. Benjamin “Justice 4 Trayvon” Crump

    The defense wanted to invade her [DeeDee] privacy and get her medical records. They tried to do this by accusing her of lying about going to a hospital or somewhere to get medical attention (listen closely, that is what was said in the Bernie Interview). All she stated was “um yeah, I had high blood pressure”. The argument ended up being really pointless and has no effect on the murder 2 trial therefore it was dismissed as moot. They tried to compromise and also not infringe on w8’s rights but the defense just kept arguing and arguing and accusing her of lying that they just dismissed it as moot without prejudice because the argument is pointless.

  13. rikyrah says:

    comment at POU:

    One of the comments there is so utterly on point (note: Fogen=Zimmerman, if interested in why he’s called Fogen, full explanations via google):

    What the press is doing is chasing something they think will be fun to catch, to divert attention from the fact that a year ago, in early March, a very big lie was exposed (“We have no evidence to disprove his claim of self-defense”) that they still have not had the courage to deal with.

    BIG LIE: That RTL was rife with crime (I suspected this, then I discovered this, and I reported this to Frances Robles who held herself out to be an honest journalist, and she ignored it, along with all the other journalists) when Fogen selflessly decided to fight crime by forming and leading the NW group.

    BIG LIE: That Fogen solved a lot of crimes.

    BIG LIE: That the police did not have probable cause to arrest Fogen.

    BIG LIE: That Serino thought it would be best to charge Fogen with accidental homicide.

    BIG LIE: That Fogen’s nose was broken.

    BIG LIE: That Fogen was terribly injured but chose not to go to the hospital because of money considerations.

    BIG LIE: That Tracy Martin said the screams on the 911 tape were not his son’s.

    BIG LIE: That Trayvon Martin was on top of FOgen delivering MMA-style punches and witnesses confirmed that.

    BIG LIE: That Trayvon Martin was a thug.

    BIG LIE: That America’s Black population was threatening to murder Fogen, causing him to need extraordinary security measures.

    BIG LIE: That there was a conspiracy to frame poor Fogen.

    BIG LIE: That the FDLE charges against Fogen were simply a political move to prevent an angry Black mob from rioting and destroying the American way.

    BIG LIE: That DeeDee lied.

    Please black people, stop believing the hype. This sort of shit is not done to us because we’re wretched and deserve it; the national media in the US is not merely trying to be fair. This is the sort of shit and racist propaganda which serves to enforce white privilege and it is ON PURPOSE.

    • The media has purposely diverted the attention away from O’Mara waiving an immunity hearing and making it about DeeDee. We will NOT be distracted by the shiny object. I see them.

  14. rikyrah says:

    US media pushes false narrative that DD (Witness 8) lied in Zimmerman case

    …At the press conference following the hearing, for example, one female reporter aggressively pressed the prosecutor, Bernie de la Rionda, to explain why he had not charged DD with perjury.

    Now, I have heard a lot of stupid questions asked over the years, and even asked more than a few myself, but this one is quite possibly the dumbest one yet.

    As I pointed out yesterday, there is no evidence that DD lied or committed perjury.

    But even if she lied, and I am not conceding that she did, given the nature of the ambiguous questions she was asked, she certainly did not lie about a relevant or material matter regarding the homicide. Therefore, a perjury charge is not even a possibility.

    Moreover, her alleged lie would not be admissible at the trial. The jury will not hear about it and the defense will not be permitted to mention it.

  15. Ametia says:

    Looks like it’s amatuer night at Knox & Associates!

  16. Looks like the FBI are waiting to pounce on the defendant who killed the victim Trayvon and is staging a self defense claim

  17. Benjamin “Justice 4 Trayvon” Crump
    February 14

    Why the case faced a delay?

    a) Norm Wolfinger has a connection to the defendant in this case. In any criminal investigation, if there are parties in law enforcement with connection to parties involved in a crime with probable cause, they must withdraw from the case, to keep the eyes and ears objective to the credibility of the case. Norm has a connection to the defendant’s father. Serino, head investigator, wanted to twice charge the defendant with murder 2. Norm, therefore, was not objective to the facts, so he stepped down after a while.

    b) The Governor Rick Scott and Mayor Triplett had to step in to make sure the investigation was done properly, so a State Attorney and investigators were asked to do the investigation, that had no connection to either party in the murder, to investigate. With 20 or so days, Corey was assigned, and within 20 or so days of her assignment, she was done, and charged the defendant with murder 2.

    c) I believe the defendant was unaware of him being recorded onto telephone calls, video, and by witnesses, hence his lies to try and cover up his crime.

    d) The defendant, was rumored to have gone around the complex trying to talk to residents about what happened, and claimed he was NW captain. The defendant may have threatened witnesses.

  18. Cardboard and Bullshit Part1

    Remember the trajectory is straight front to back

    Now the bullet holes in the sweater and hoodie were closer to the left shoulder of Trayvon

    The gunshot wound, was central in his chest, just a bit above the solar plexus

    This means the hoodie and sweater had to have been pulled down, and to the right of Trayvon’s body, for the bullet holes to line up with the gunshot wound

    This proves that the defendant was gripping Trayvon by the shirt when he shot him

  19. Here is a report before the shooting occurred

    Here is a report before the shooting occurred

    The defendant going around stalking the neighborhood asking for personal information from residents and would not present identification to residents or confirm he was neighborhood watch to residents so the cops got called on him.

  20. George Zimmerman March 5 2013 Post Hearing Press Conferences

  21. Benjamin “Justice 4 Trayvon” Crump

    I will clarify what transpired, in case people missed the hearing, and you can check it out online on youtube. Use a reputable source to watch it so it is authentic.

    1) Deedee told Crump she was in shock and did not feel well, therefore was unable to attend a wake. She said she went to a hospital or had to get medical attention and then the recording is unclear what she says.

    2) Deedee tells Bernie, when Bernie asks if she went to the wake or funeral, that she wanted to go. Bernie asks why she could not make it. She tells him she felt ill because of the killing. Bernie asks if she went to the hospital or “somewhere”. Deedee says mmm yeah, I had high blood pressure. (Note West, W8 never claimed to be hospitalized)

    3) West twists what the state told the defense into claiming that the state said that she lied about going to the hospital and not attending the wake. The state simply stated to them and the court that there will be no medical records, to take her deposition, it is moot, and then if they want to bring up medical records of her after her deposition, they can have a hearing on that issue.

    4) Judge agrees with the state and asks the defense to simply depose witness 8 and if medical records are necessary then they can bring it up at another hearing. My guess is she means to speak to witness 8 and clarify before making assumptions.

    5) West continues accusing her of lying with no proof and asks when the state found out.

    6) Guy again tells them to depose witness 8 and it is not necessary to get her medical records. Just depose witness 8 and if medical records are deemed necessary, then they can have a hearing on that issue.

    7) Nelson tells the defense to depose witness 8, and if there is anything different from her original testimonies, then they can bring up the issues, as well as the medical records they seek, if it is deemed necessary after her deposition, and then they can depose her strictly on the medical records thereafter. I think Nelson was just showing witness 8 respect, so that she can decide what she is willing to give to the defense.

    8) West continues accusing with no proof or confirmation from the state about lying. Guy stated that there will be no medical records, just depose her, and then perhaps we can talk about medical records. Guy is basically saying to let the witness 8 decide if she wants to discuss giving out her medical records.

    9) Nelson decides the issue is moot and dismisses it without prejudice

    10) West asks for witness 8’s address. Nelson tells him again to depose witness 8 and get the information straight from her in a deposition.

    That is basically it. I summarized it, but watch it for yourself, and decide. IMO, the state is just giving the witness the right to give what she wants to the defense. Only the defense is alleging she is lying but keeps refusing to depose her and than making up things.

  22. rikyrah says:

    the hoops some people are willing to jump through to cover up for this murderer are amazing

  23. Michael Knox: LLMPapa’s Bullet Hole Misalignment Analysis Is Full of Holes

    smiley reading

  24. Xena says:

    It bothered me that Knox didn’t know the Medical Examiner’s findings. Get him, LLMPapa. Gethimgethimgethim. Get Knox.

    • I’ll bet Knox is soo embarrassed? embarrassed smiley photo: embarrassed 2 smiley embarrassed2.gif

      • Xena says:

        IMO, Knox did not come to the knowledge of LLMPapa and his videos on his own. My guess is that some Zidiot instigated the fight and prejudiced Knox to think that LLMPapa was according to the lies that the ZIdiots say about him. Well, Knox knows better now. LLMPapa has spanked that booty.

  25. LLMPapa spanked that ass of Michael Knox! Spanking Smiley

  26. Knox is just bitter because Papa did what he should have done, properly, thoroughly & accurately …. books sales didn’t go as planned did they, Mr. Expert? Maybe he should partnered up with Papa – he could have actually made some money. People like to read correct information lol

  27. Give it up, Mr. Knox! You lose. George Zimmerman was holding on to the kid’s shirt when he shot & murdered him in cold blood.

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